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tj_dragonbladeI honestly don't know why I'm posting this, except that I seem to have a need to talk it through before I go do what I'm pretty well already decided to do.
I think I'm going to read a fic. Or few.
This is of course not a strange thing in and of itself. But...see, it's DS9 slash fic. And while sure I spent a good three years or so thoroughly immersed/obsessed in the show back in the day (has it really been...holy crap, it's been 13 years since then...), it predates my exposure to yaoi/slash. Garak and Bashir were always my absolute favorite characters (hell, I had a very Sue-ish virginal crush on Bashir with many a ficcish entry in my old diaries to prove it, but we won't go into that. ^_^; ). But I never, ever would have thought to put them together. I was only just beginning to grow beyond the tenets of the religion in which I'd been raised; sex (much less homosexuality or anything resembling it) was pretty well the farthest thing from my mind.
That said, I fully recognize that if I was discovering the fandom now, the probability is astronomically high that I'd be a die-hard rabid Garak/Bashir fangirl. The idea appeals to me, I can look back and see boatloads of material to go from, and truth be told, there's a part of me that counts myself a silent fangirl and wants to go exploring it now anyway.
But. On the other hand, there's the fact that slash relationships in fandoms that predate my introduction to slash weird me out like you wouldn't believe. Something on the order of tampering with childhood nostalgia/innocence/illusions and the like. Which has left the whole idea of Garak/Bashir tucked up in the corner shelf of the back storage closet in my mind.
Until a couple days ago. See, in the course of recent KakaIru binge reading, I turned up an author's website containing a nice neat list of everything s/he's written by fandom, and a couple sections below Naruto it said DS9. With three fics listed, all Garak/Bashir, none of them rated below R.
I can't tell you how long I stared at that, deliberating, pondering, dancing back and forth on the issues in my head, blushing all the while, no less, hovering over the links and not quite sure if I really wanted to click.
In the end, I left it alone.
But the idea has not returned the favor. It's been quietly poking at the back of my brain ever since, insidious and subversive (it's Garak, for gods' sakes; what else did I expect?); I've gone back and stared at the links awhile more one day, avoided them the next, went back and actually clicked one, skimmed far enough to place the story in canon and then hastily retreated before I could really absorb anything else.
I'm...wary, cautious...or perhaps skittish, I guess is the best word. I'd liken it to running into an old friend after several years and discovering that what used to be purely platonic now has a sexual undercurrent and trying to decide if exploring that undercurrent is worth risking/altering the old friendship.
Do I want to sexualize these characters in my mind? Yes, of course, says one part of my mind, and Oh dear lord what am I *thinking*? says another.
I'm reminded of my introduction to Hakuryuu porn, in a way, with the equal pull of fascination vs. squick.
Seeing how well that's turned out, though, it's something of an inevitibility that I'd break down and read the fics. I mean, stepping outside one's comfort zones every so often is a good thing, right?
There's also the concern about quality of writing - is it going to be IC? Feel right? God help me, I don't think I could handle Garak and mushy-sap in any context to one another without suffering a mental processor crash of biblical proportions. Error. Error. Does not compute.
But this author in question did a perfectly decent job of it with KakaIru, so odds are the Garak/Bashir wouldn't be dreadfully OOC either. That really can't be an excuse.
Neither can the pre-slash fandom thing, honestly, when I look at Xmen and where I tend to stand on Logurt nowadays. It's really just a matter of deciding to pursue and getting past that threshold.
Which I guess means I'm off to read. The R-rated one; plunging headlong into an NC17 is probably not the best of ideas at this point. Really, I'd probably do better with a softer rating straight out of the gate, but...well. Here I am.
Wish me luck.
...And it's odd as fucking hell that the iPod should present with the current music as I'm writing this post - DS9 is the only reason I know and have the song. Though I'd like very much to have a version with Avery Brooks' vocals, instead. *eyes the Pod with suspicion*
I think I'm going to read a fic. Or few.
This is of course not a strange thing in and of itself. But...see, it's DS9 slash fic. And while sure I spent a good three years or so thoroughly immersed/obsessed in the show back in the day (has it really been...holy crap, it's been 13 years since then...), it predates my exposure to yaoi/slash. Garak and Bashir were always my absolute favorite characters (hell, I had a very Sue-ish virginal crush on Bashir with many a ficcish entry in my old diaries to prove it, but we won't go into that. ^_^; ). But I never, ever would have thought to put them together. I was only just beginning to grow beyond the tenets of the religion in which I'd been raised; sex (much less homosexuality or anything resembling it) was pretty well the farthest thing from my mind.
That said, I fully recognize that if I was discovering the fandom now, the probability is astronomically high that I'd be a die-hard rabid Garak/Bashir fangirl. The idea appeals to me, I can look back and see boatloads of material to go from, and truth be told, there's a part of me that counts myself a silent fangirl and wants to go exploring it now anyway.
But. On the other hand, there's the fact that slash relationships in fandoms that predate my introduction to slash weird me out like you wouldn't believe. Something on the order of tampering with childhood nostalgia/innocence/illusions and the like. Which has left the whole idea of Garak/Bashir tucked up in the corner shelf of the back storage closet in my mind.
Until a couple days ago. See, in the course of recent KakaIru binge reading, I turned up an author's website containing a nice neat list of everything s/he's written by fandom, and a couple sections below Naruto it said DS9. With three fics listed, all Garak/Bashir, none of them rated below R.
I can't tell you how long I stared at that, deliberating, pondering, dancing back and forth on the issues in my head, blushing all the while, no less, hovering over the links and not quite sure if I really wanted to click.
In the end, I left it alone.
But the idea has not returned the favor. It's been quietly poking at the back of my brain ever since, insidious and subversive (it's Garak, for gods' sakes; what else did I expect?); I've gone back and stared at the links awhile more one day, avoided them the next, went back and actually clicked one, skimmed far enough to place the story in canon and then hastily retreated before I could really absorb anything else.
I'm...wary, cautious...or perhaps skittish, I guess is the best word. I'd liken it to running into an old friend after several years and discovering that what used to be purely platonic now has a sexual undercurrent and trying to decide if exploring that undercurrent is worth risking/altering the old friendship.
Do I want to sexualize these characters in my mind? Yes, of course, says one part of my mind, and Oh dear lord what am I *thinking*? says another.
I'm reminded of my introduction to Hakuryuu porn, in a way, with the equal pull of fascination vs. squick.
Seeing how well that's turned out, though, it's something of an inevitibility that I'd break down and read the fics. I mean, stepping outside one's comfort zones every so often is a good thing, right?
There's also the concern about quality of writing - is it going to be IC? Feel right? God help me, I don't think I could handle Garak and mushy-sap in any context to one another without suffering a mental processor crash of biblical proportions. Error. Error. Does not compute.
But this author in question did a perfectly decent job of it with KakaIru, so odds are the Garak/Bashir wouldn't be dreadfully OOC either. That really can't be an excuse.
Neither can the pre-slash fandom thing, honestly, when I look at Xmen and where I tend to stand on Logurt nowadays. It's really just a matter of deciding to pursue and getting past that threshold.
Which I guess means I'm off to read. The R-rated one; plunging headlong into an NC17 is probably not the best of ideas at this point. Really, I'd probably do better with a softer rating straight out of the gate, but...well. Here I am.
Wish me luck.
...And it's odd as fucking hell that the iPod should present with the current music as I'm writing this post - DS9 is the only reason I know and have the song. Though I'd like very much to have a version with Avery Brooks' vocals, instead. *eyes the Pod with suspicion*
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Date: 2008-04-06 09:46 am (UTC)But it also helps that we've got the new versions of Hope and Crosby with a dash of a Kirk and Spock in John and Rodney in SGA. I can't help but love them and they've got that once in a generation type of chemistry that just FITS the characters. Doesn't help that season 3 and 4 pretty much cemented the fact that John is utterly devoted to Rodney... *grin*
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Date: 2008-04-07 04:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 11:44 am (UTC)Never seen DS9, so I can't really say anything about it. ^^ Good luck with whatever you do. ^^
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Date: 2008-04-07 05:43 am (UTC)Mm, Kenshin.
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Date: 2008-04-06 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-07 04:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 09:05 pm (UTC)It's like... You're typing straight from my mind. That's exactly how I was.
Now I RP Garak/Bashir, even years later... Garak has anatomy like I picture Goujun to have (yanno, the slit and all that), and it's so much fun. Have you ever read Garak's book? The one written by his actor? Oh man, it's like him and Bashir were MADE to get together.
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Date: 2008-04-07 05:41 am (UTC)It's nice to know I'm not the only one. ^_^;
Just out of curiosity, which of them do you play?
Garak has anatomy like I picture Goujun to have
...I can't quite figure out if my mind is recoiling in squeamishness at confronting the fact that of course Garak has anatomy or if it's trying not to drool over the idea that it should be very like Goujun's. Probably a bit of both. Either way, it makes me squirm. ^_^;
Reading Andrew Robinson's book has been on my to-do list since the last time we briefly discussed these two and you recced it to me. I think perhaps I should haul my ass out of the manga section next time I hit the bookstore and go find it again. Especially now.
Having read the fic I was talking about last night, though, I find myself a little squirmy at the bits that approach sex but thoroughly enchanted with the whole thing nonetheless. Aside from a raised eyebrow at the likelihood of a water-based shower on a runabout, but what the hey. There were plenty of little things and lines and what-not that reminded me what I loved so much about either of them back in high school. I mean...well, here -
"So essentially, we have terrible secrets, we're lonely, let's get hitched?" Julian summarizes, trying to keep a smile off his face.
"I'm sure I put it much more elegantly," Garak huffs.
I mean...it's just...there's such a...a-- *waves hands* Them. The two of them, each of them, there's so much to love - I can't seem to articulate, but having crossed this threshold, I find it very happy-making. >_< I'd like to find more, enough to pull me in to the point where the sex ceases to make me squidgy. Y'know?
Really, do you know of anything else I ought to read to further adjust my perceptions? I'd be grateful for any further recs before I start searching blind and being scarred by copious amounts of the inevitible badfic. ^_^
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Date: 2008-04-07 06:20 am (UTC)Really, do you know of anything else I ought to read to further adjust my perceptions?
I play Bashir (hense the icons), on a community with my friend Xan on Livejournal. If you want, you can join our little community and read the GarakBashir post. We only have one so far, and it's not yet finished, but I like the build up in the beginning (taking place after Garak's book, so you may want to read that too?). We role-play GojyoHakkai too so that's always something... keep in mind we do porn porn and more porn with some story stuffed in on the side, but some of our friends like to read it :D
I'm a type who could have played Garak without a problem, or Hakkai, but Xan is more Garak then she is Bashir, so I had no problem with slipping into the Dear Doctor.
...I can't quite figure out if my mind is recoiling in squeamishness at confronting the fact that of course Garak has anatomy or if it's trying not to drool over the idea that it should be very like Goujun's. Probably a bit of both. Either way, it makes me squirm. ^_^;
hahaha... You're in the "need to break-in" mode. Like a new shoe. The book will seriously help, as Garak speaks of his past which did have some passionate points (as well as his passion for his 'friendship' with the Dear Doctor).
Garak reminds me of... what may happen if Goujun and Hakkai had a love child. Note: I say Hakkai instead of Tenpou because I relate to Hakkai being much more tortured then Tenpou, and Garak is a very tortured character. The personality of Hakkai - smile even though it hurts, kill without remorse, slaughter hundreds without thinking, and make sure to serve your lover breakfast in the morning. And Goujun... because of the physical aspects. Unusual, alien, reptile-like. Ah, Cardassians... my passion.
I mean...it's just...there's such a...a-- *waves hands* Them. The two of them, each of them, there's so much to love - I can't seem to articulate, but having crossed this threshold, I find it very happy-making. >_< I'd like to find more, enough to pull me in to the point where the sex ceases to make me squidgy. Y'know?
Come now, Bashir is a very sexual man. There's no way he'd keep Garak out of his bed once then hopped in. ;) I can see you leaning towards Garak's psychology, more restraint, but what would happen if the tailor gave in.... mwa ha ha ha ha...
Really, do you know of anything else I ought to read to further adjust my perceptions? I'd be grateful for any further recs before I start searching blind and being scarred by copious amounts of the inevitible badfic. ^_^
Most fic I liked in-general, but there was nothing that truly stood out in the crowd for me. So ultimately I'd recommend Robinson's book, and maybe reading my RP session might help. Hopefully. If you don't dislike the way Xan and I play them. We try to be as IC as possible...
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Date: 2008-04-07 07:08 am (UTC)Bwah. XD Do you know, in the course of my usual comparing character personalities and 'types' across series, I'd come up with the same thing? For just the reasons you stated. What's that they say about great minds...?
Hakkai's waay more tortured than Tenpou. Definitely. And they've both got that very effective habit of appearing much less harmless than they truly are, and being manipulative in such a way that you don't realize you've been manipulated until after the fact. Which has always reminded me of Garak, and probably explains rather a lot about the sort of characters I tend to gravitate toward most.
For the record, Garak also reminds me strongly of Count D, except that he's not quite so effeminate. The development of his relationship with Leon also reminds me of the development of the friendship between Garak and Bashir. Leon and Bashir aren't quite so perfect a parallel, but I can draw enough lines of similarity to make myself happy.
There's no way he'd keep Garak out of his bed once then hopped in. ;)
^_^; I have to agree with you. I'm just not used to them living in that particular corner of my brain. Will definitely take some breaking in. I mean, I couldn't envision sex between Gojyo and Hakkai at first, either, but that didn't last too terribly long. *grin* Not to mention my extremely rapid shift from squick to kink on the subject of dragonsex. It's all just a matter of finding the right dose in the right way to ease into it.
...There's any number of yaoi-minded prep metaphors I could be making here, too, but I'll refrain.
Unusual, alien, reptile-like. Ah, Cardassians... my passion.
Full-blown xenophilia fodder at it's finest, I'd say. Which is yet another reason, I think, that I'm wanting to adapt my headspace to this so badly.
I definitely will have to go find the book. And I'd love to poke about quietly on the RP comm as well, if you don't mind. ^_^
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Date: 2008-04-07 08:35 am (UTC)I'll write more later, I gotta run to bed. HAHA. I should've been in bed hours ago! Oops! ::thud::
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Date: 2008-04-07 04:09 pm (UTC)It's frightening how similar our brains are! X) I blame the fact that we're both Earth Signs.
For the record, Garak also reminds me strongly of Count D, except that he's not quite so effeminate. The development of his relationship with Leon also reminds me of the development of the friendship between Garak and Bashir. Leon and Bashir aren't quite so perfect a parallel, but I can draw enough lines of similarity to make myself happy.
Garak has that aspect of manipulating someone with politeness and food, which reminds me of Count D's type-of-personality. Bashir doesn't resemble Leon in the slightest, though. Bashir, with his own secrets and lies, put up an act his entire life. Leon's way too honest and open-book. Leon's like... a rough-and-tumble rebel, Bashir is James Bond. hahaha.
I mean, I couldn't envision sex between Gojyo and Hakkai at first, either, but that didn't last too terribly long.
Wow, really? Wow...
I definitely will have to go find the book. And I'd love to poke about quietly on the RP comm as well, if you don't mind. ^_^
Awesome! Have fun! Let me know how terrible my writing can be, and keep in mind that we started 4 years ago and I still suck just as bad. hahaha... sometimes I wince at my old typos, and go "How did I NOT catch that?"
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Date: 2008-04-11 02:44 am (UTC)...not really, does he, aside from a certain stubborn tenacity in the face of mystery that they both exhibit in their own ways. I'm beginning to realize that my perception of his character is roughly 13 years out of date and about as dusty as one might expect. I was never looking for much beyond the surface back then. Y'know, as in, never really considered the implications and depths of any background info revealed, just sort of took everybody relatively at face value. And that's another reason I'm keen on exploring this from a fanfic perspective - I've found in the last seven or so years that reading and/or writing fic leads me to deeper exploration of character. I can't write a body very well without some sort of understanding of what's underneath the surface, and even just reading fic - the whole text accompaniment (vs. just the visual presentation by actors or animation) tends to be more enlightening, give a character more solid dimension...ack. I don't know that I'm making a whole lot of sense, but reading a character (fanwork or canon) tends to help me get a better grasp on him than I get just from watching canon.
I haven't gone poking at your RP just yet, but I'm building a foundation to get there. Found a fan comm, found a fic site, read a few more things. Haven't stumbled into any all-out porn just yet, but I've read a couple of tastefully mild two-paragraph scenes and one fairly explicit make-out that did the scene-cut as soon as all the clothes came off. And the squeamishness is on a swift decline, so I'll probably be up for genuine porn in no time. ^_^♥
I do believe I'm going to like this as a fandom experience. ^_^
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Date: 2008-04-18 07:08 am (UTC)I'd make coherent comment on the RP post, but I'd have to find a coherent comment first. *_*
Mind, there's a small corner still of my brain trying to do the squicky-dance, but it's been fairly well bludgeoned into whimpering submission by the rest of my brain. God, what fun there is to be had with these two...
I will be looking forward to more of that, whenever it might be played with again.
Did I say thank you yet?
Damn, but I wish I could find that book. I may have to resort to actually visiting the library.
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Date: 2008-04-18 04:24 pm (UTC)Ooo, I'm very glad you're enjoying it. And no no no, thank YOU!
We always on-again-off-again play, so there will be sportatic updates. I'll certainly give you a heads-up when we complete it. :) It's close to completing that scene, anyway... very close... much like Julian is. ::cough::
The book is easy to get on Amazon.com!
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Date: 2008-04-19 07:06 am (UTC)*settles in to wait for book* Hopefully it'll be here by the end of next week. Meanwhile, there's still more fanfic to discover. It's really pretty awesome - most of what I've run into hasn't been utterly terrible. I'm used to wading through lots of crap in new fandoms to find the scattered good stuff, but...either I've just been incredibly lucky, or this a fandom that consistently turns out high quality as the norm. Either way, I'm quite happy. My old obsession is new again
and highly fucking addictive, I might add!no subject
Date: 2008-04-19 06:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-20 09:09 am (UTC)At least I have Amazon. And enough word-of-mouth to be assured that it's worth the price I ended up paying. I guess the real question is, if I'd had to, would I have forked out $50?
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Date: 2008-04-20 03:30 pm (UTC)http://www.amazon.com/Stitch-Time-Star-Trek-Space/dp/0671038850/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208705378&sr=8-3
new and used from 6.75?
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Date: 2008-04-20 08:08 pm (UTC)Of course, now I'm pissed off that the lowest price available is 6.75 when there was nothing under $12 two days ago when I bought it.
I must train much harder in the art of bargain-fu, apparently. T_T
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Date: 2008-04-21 12:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-20 08:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 02:46 am (UTC)Hiii, Julian~ ♥
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Date: 2008-04-17 06:36 am (UTC)>"I'm sure I put it much more elegantly," Garak huffs.
Oh, that's a good one! by The Hoyden, I think.
If you want to ease into things with a very sweet series of short stories, try "Nom de Plume," "Roman a Clef," and "Folie a Deux,' by Arcady.
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Date: 2008-04-18 03:21 am (UTC)The others you rec - as a matter of fact, I was reading those just the other night, and gods yes, but they're terribly sweet. With just the right touch of bittersweet. Good stuff. And I must say, with all the fics and fic-recs to be found at
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Date: 2008-04-10 05:31 pm (UTC)I know that feeling SO well. There's reasons I rarely go back to my original shows these days.
If a fic is bad, are you able to leave it midway? Or are you one of those readers who feels compelled to read all the way through, regardless of quality?
As for your current music...well. All I can say is that, in my experience and despite all its snark, pT tends to take care of a body when you really need it. ♥
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Date: 2008-04-11 06:23 am (UTC)And do you know, it was you and your psyTunes that came instantly to mind when such a subject-appropriate song came up?
And yesss, dammit, you get the Gecko icon again. >_< It somehow always seems appropriate.
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Date: 2008-04-20 05:29 am (UTC)Your habits of abandoning/giving benefit of the doubt to badfic sound very similar to my own. I think I start to skim sometimes, looking for a telltale passage that'll really show the mettle of the writer. I'm also sooouper critical of technical flaws. Meh.
I am both flattered and unsurprised that it would be my pT that came to mind ♥ Part of me really wants to get my hands on your computer, to truly infect it, but the larger part of me recognizes that would be just mean. XDD
Heee. Well. Yes. Also? If you don't know about IJ community takoyaoi_love, I advise you to go check it out posthaste. Not only because it has interesting fic to start with, but because I'm going to be posting a rather....unconventional....fic on the 28th, assuming I get it done on time, and I am going to want and need a cheering squad and
I choose you, Hakuryuu:D....Shit now I want a PKMN/Saiyuki crossover. Oh shit. Or a Saiyuki/YGO crossover....
It all has to do with Hakuryuu, and the interpretations made by people Not-Hakkai of him...and the entiiiire time the ikkou is in pallet town, he has to keep fending off poke'balls, until finally someone - probably sanzo - snaps and just starts growling at all the little rugrat pokemon trainers
OR, YGO crossover, or fusion really, putting Hakkai and Hakuryuu (and probably the rest of the ikkou for company) in the YGO world, late canon, where the soul (ka) is represented by a duel monster, and Hakkai's is Hakuryuu. Goku's is Seitan (en?) Taisei, Gojyo's is an actual kappa, and Sanzo's is a rat
OR, I need to shut the hell up right now and stop having retarded ideas XD
Anyway. You and your scaly preferences need to keep me and my highly scaled story company over at takoyaoi_love when I post. I'll remind you, if you'd like.
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Date: 2008-04-20 08:38 am (UTC)Ah, 'retarded' ideas are often a lot of fun. The YGO one sounds like a good idea, actually, and...I might be mistaken, but I think someone somewhere may have done something along the lines of that Pokemon bunny already. Though my memory also suggests it was not done particularly well. I'm almost tempted to try it myself. I daren't make any promises, however, seeing as how I've proven reliably unreliable at delivering on promised fics thus far. Not to mention I'm currently drowning in a new fandom. Or rather, a new aspect of an old fandom, and I'm absolutely horrible (historically speaking) about maintaining active participation in more than one fandom at a time. It's a little distressing, even as I'm eagerly gorging on the new stuff (almost everything I've tried is remarkably good), because god help me but I'm not yet ready to let go of Saiyuki. At all. *clings* Which leaves me determined to develop a dual-fandom presence and keep one foot in each ocean, so to speak, instead of leaving one for the other. How can I abandon the dragon, in any form, no matter what sorts of scaled xenophilic possibilities beckon? Why shouldn't I hold both?
And I'm probably going to get myself in trouble having committed this desire/goal/what-have-you to written words, but...eh. What will be, will be.
...That was all rather unrelated to the original point, in the end. My apologies. ^_^;
And y'know, I can't help but imagine that Hakuryuu would become terribly indignant after a very short while of being constantly mistaken for a Pokemon. I see an LJ icon with some dreadfully OOC quote on the order of 'So not a Pokemon, bitch!'. Ahaha. Forgive me. ^_^; He'd probably suffer it with as much dignified resignation as he could muster, but I imagine he'd require quite a lot of 'therapy' from Hakkai once it's all over to recover. *cough*
*headdesk* I have such a hard time resisting once Hakuryuu starts making noise in his little corner of my brain. I make no promises. But there's a possibility something small might come of this.
...On a similar note, I want to make sure you did/do have a chance to see this. (http://tj-dragonblade.livejournal.com/219104.html) Not that I'm looking for comments - I know your schedule is fully loaded. It's just that I'm pretty sure you'd appreciate it, however egotistical my ear thinks that sounds for me to say. ^_^;
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Date: 2008-04-10 05:35 pm (UTC)Unrelatedly, Joey says hi.
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Date: 2008-04-11 06:25 am (UTC)Hi Joey~ *waves*